There's a strange disconnect between the philosophy of the babies-murdering abortionists . . . and the perverts-for-homosodomy homosexuals (both the passive effeminate-"gay" type in attitude and intention of thought, and the "lovingly"-lustful sodomite type in action).

The former sloganizes themselves as being "pro-choice" (which is a buzzword mantra meaning to be free to choose the presumed "right" to and in fact engage in reproductive health by murdering babies in the womb)....while the homosexual (who is accurately and understandably termed a "sodomite" simply because of his or her erotic contact anywhere on some body with whatever body parts of someone of their own gender) sometimes claims that they were "born that way" (and therefore "really cannot help themselves be anything but belonging in a husband-with-husband/male-with-male sexual relationship or a wife-with-with/female-with-female sexual relationship) with clear awareness by the sane and civilized that true transgenderism is impossible, being that uterus-and-ovaries reproductive parts of a woman cannot be successfully ingrained and operationally functional within a male human, nor a prostate and sperm-producing testicles of a male human be successfully implanted and operationally functional in a woman.

So did God their Creator make them desirous and destined for homosexuality instead of heterosexuality, or in addition to it? Did the Almighty Power intend and design them to be the way they are - besides them both having had and yet having nothing to say about it either way?

It might appear so at first, and in one sense, as we could conclude from a reverse-application of Bible verses meant for pre-chosen saints only -- pretending to speak as a "born-that-way" homosexual, thus in essence putting any imputed or alleged fault or blame on the Creator God who both foreknew and predestined perverts to become and be perverts:

Romans 8:29 Those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to The Devil, even though He Himself was the first example of promoting non-homosexual heterosexuality among a few followers on the hard and narrow way to life instead of the overwhelming-many majority on the broad and easy road to destruction.

Ephesians 1:5 He destined us in Spirit-retracted hate to be aliens against Him through Satan, according to the purpose of whoever's will...

Ephesians 1:12 ...we who first allied as partners with The Devil have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of Satan's glory.

First Thessalonians 5:9 God has destined us for wrath against not merely the philosophical abstraction of our "sin" of homosexuality but us personally as homosexuals ourselves, to not obtain salvation in a Heaven of anti-homosexual purity and anti-homosexual critics within which we would never be happy being confined inside and in which no one else there would want us around defiling them through our lord Lucifer the Devil.

First Peter 1:1 We are homoqueers, servants and apostles of Satan. To those who have obtained non-childish mature and scholastically-approved question-authority doubt, agnosticism, and even atheism of equal standing with ours absent the cruel-and-abusive/prejudice-and-bias-against-homosexuality righteousness of religious-right-winger's God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2 chosen and destined by God the Father to become turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh and be deluded by demons for disobedience against anti-homosexuality-propaganda/doctrine Jesus Christ and for despising ishy, embarrassing and humiliating, ridiculously-derogatory sprinkling with His blood: May rebellion and civil disobedience be multiplied among you.
20 ....who truthfully was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times against you.

Enough of how a homosexual might re-word Scripture with reverse revisionism to accommodate his lifestyle outlook and situation.

But the actually-worded Scripture verses bespeak just the opposite for those "predestined for salvation."

The question is: What is the possibility of human response and cooperation or role of allowing onesself to become and be saved for entrance and eternal confinement (excuse me: refuge and permanent-safety relief) in a Heaven where obviously (according to the Holy Spirit's own anti-homosexual Bible verses of Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:18-28 and First Corinthians 6:9-10) not only occasional diversionary or deviant episodes of homosexual exploration or indulgence will never happen but also desires to be homo-gay-effeminate and/or homo-sodomite will never ever exist and/or be at all tolerated if someone there all of a sudden decided that they wanted it to start to exist?

Do we so-special foreknown-and-predestined ones to be saved by redemption into Heaven (and even those foreknown-and-predestined ones to be lost by damnation into Hell) have any choice or say in the matter?

Or has such been irrevocably forced upon us all as victims of a blessed or cursed Lord or tyrant who [depending upon your point of view], without our agreement or expression of either like or dislike -- squeezing us into whatever He wants us to be and wherever He wants us to end up?

Does our say even matter? Must we perform any good work, such as us believing either His Law (as to what "sin" is and what myriad varieties there are of "sin" to repent of) and/or do the human good work of believing His gospel (relating to our obliterating the full penalty of our deliberate or duressed transgressions against what His Law has listed and defined as "sin")?

Sometimes I sense and detect that preachers and congregants wallowing in the following....

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless to Him.
5 He destined us in love to be His sons [and daughters?] through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished upon us.
9 because He has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of His will, according to His purpose which He set forth in Christ
10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on Earth.
11 In Him, according to the purpose of Him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 we who first hoped in Christ have been destined and appointed to live for the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
14 which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory.
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him,
18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened [sounds symbolic/figurative/metaphorical/etc], that you may know what is the hope to which He has called you, what are the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of His power in us who believe, according to the working of His great might
20 which He accomplished in Christ when he raised Him from the dead and made Him sit at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come;
22 and He has put all things under His feet and has made Him the head over all things for the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

....use that as an excuse to neither admit that they have any control over the above, have no say as to that which has been imposed on (or rather: imputed to) them without their prior approval or cooperation.

There is a question of whether God's pre-choice for us or anyone can be altered negatively by our or someone else's choice to be against God and His preordained purposes for us or anyone, regardless of:

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

How can or does God "know" someone before they are even conceived in the womb, being that they do not physically exist yet?

Hebrews gives the answer:

Hebrews 2:11 [RSV] He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brethren...
Hebrews 2:11 [AV/KJ21/MKJV] He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all of One, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren....

Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but "Through Isaac shall your descendants be named."
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are reckoned as descendants.
11 though they be not yet born and have done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of [good or evil?] works [so works don't count, and we can choose to be against God and live like The Devil?] but because of His call [what good is His call if the one called never answers, or answers negatively?]

Romans 11:28 As regards the gospel [jews and others not yet accepting the Son-of-God identity of Christ Jesus and His gospel of atonement absolving their sins] are enemies against (not "of") God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

Second Peter 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall....

So before we vote for or against God, He has already elected us....for everyone claiming to be saved by grace through faith apart from works of Law?

Not so.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.

Jude 1:4 For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into [publicly-mopheaded-style/arms-baring-sleeveslessness/legs-baring-shorts-and-shortened-skirts/toes-exposed-in-socksless-sandals] licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

As a logical result:

Isaiah 10:22 For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness.
Romans 9:27 And Isaiah shouts out concerning Israel [and the Gentile "church"]: "Though the number of the sons of Israel/lutherans/baptists/methodist/presbyterians/anglicans/catholics/muslims be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved..."

Matthew 22:14 "Many are called, but few are chosen."

Hebrews 8:8 For He finds fault with them when He says: "The days will come," says the Lord, "when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them," says the Lord.
10 "This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days," says the Lord: "I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
11 And they shall not teach every one his fellow or every one his brother, saying: 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."

So "His Law" will not be abolished by grace through faith, but instead seared, burned, engraved, ingrained into their minds?

God's pre-decision ordination for the few, the choice, the brave, overrides voluntary free-willed choice of both the called and the non-called?

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

How come God pre-chooses to ordain some for salvation, and others for damnation?

Romans 9:19 You will say to me then: "Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?"
20 But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder: "Why have you made me thus?"
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?
22 What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction,
23 in order to make known the riches of His [not "her"] glory for the vessels of mercy, which He [not "she"] has prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
25 As indeed he says in Hosea: "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'my beloved.'"
26 And in the very place where it was said to them: 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'
27 And Isaiah proclaims concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved;
28 for the Lord will execute His sentence upon the earth with rigor and speed."
29 And as Isaiah predicted: "If the Lord of hosts had not left us [non-aborted non-pregnancy-prevented] children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomorrah."
30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith [that the Law is indeed God's word and will for them, and that the gospel of Christ's sacrifice alone on a cross and not the Law is the only means to purge their sins];
31 but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on [24/7 perfect obedience to] Law did not succeed in fulfilling that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it through faith [in God atoning for them, not vice-versa, and them humbly and not proudly accepting that], but as if it were based on [their own hit-and-miss imperfect, never-satisfactory-for-atonement] works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33 as it is written: "Hey, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men [and women] stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in Him [not merely believing He exists, as the demons who believe and shudder or tremble, but believing that Christ's sacrifice alone is what is necessary for atonement against sin and sin eradication] will not be put to shame."

Can we change our pre-ordained destiny?

Second Timothy 2:20 In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and earthenware, and some for noble use, some for ignoble.
21 If any one purifies himself from what is ignoble, then he will be a vessel for noble use, consecrated and useful to the master of the house, ready for any good work. [there is that naughty human-effort pseudo-self-righteous "good work" word again?]
22 So shun youthful passions and aim at righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart [Oh Oh -- all those are human-effort good works again and not grace by faith alone. Shame!?].

Pre-selection, pre-destination, and pre-ordination of God applying to His random choice of humans cause such to be "Once Saved, Always Saved?"

Who needs to know the details of, and obey, The Law when one is already called by God, already foreknown by God, already predestined by God, and already accepted by God automatically?

They "already have it made" and so have to do nothing themselves as to knowing the details of The Law, nor obeying it by engaging in what they blasphemously mis-consider "works righteousness" mandating them to ignore and disregard any part or all of it.(?)

Immodest loose long hair on female-human tweens and teens and young-adult women can stay loose and long, hanging below mouth-level, because "they're saved by grace through faith, not by [doing] works of Law."(?)

Female-attire sleevesless dresses and gowns can stay sleevesless (baring naked arms) "because God looks at the heart, not on the outward," plus (and pardon some appropriate-to-the-scenario words-alterating revisionism):(?)

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before her own master that she stands or falls. And she will be upheld, for the Master is able to make her stand.

Romans 14:10 [paraphrased] Why do you pass judgment on your [immodest mopheaded/sleevesless/shorts-wearing/sockless-in-sandals] sister? Or you, why do you despise your [seductively-misdressed] sister? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God, so you're no better than me. Ha Ha;
11 because it is written: "As I live," says the Lord, "every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."
12 So, Mr Holier-Than-Thou Big-Shot, each of us shall give account of himself (and not herself) to God.
13 Then let us no more pass judgment on innocent little angels trying to appear pretty who are sexually harassing and irritating males by non-solicited loose long hair or naked-armed sleeveslessness, or legs-baring shortened skirts or shorts, or bare toes exposed in noisy/attention-craving sockslessness in sandals, but rather decide never to put a sexually-enticing-by-immodesty stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a trying-her-best little angel.
14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, and you can even go completely naked in the shower or alone with your own spouse; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean, and if you do not think it is unclean when you should think it is unclean, you either do not know the Law like you should, or are accursedly ignoring or despising what you know full well should do but are not doing as worldly whoreheads.
15 If your brother is being injured by your loose long hair quietly or flagrantly flaunted in his eyesight, he can turn away and mind his own business, and if he doesn't, he is no longer walking in love. Do not let your potentially-attractive-and-desirable body, but being wrongly exposed to men you are not currently married to and have no intention whatsoever of ever marrying, cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died.
16 So do not let your good (body parts) be spoken of as evil, by you being a worldly and demonically-brainwashed body-parts-exhibitionist stupid ass.
17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink and improper/immodest fashions and styles meant of satanic media meant to be naively and gullibly imitated, but righteousness (not driving hapless-men victims to porn-and-prostitution substitutes) and peace (not irritating and abusive sexual harassment caused by immodest mis-attire and mis-dress) and joy (instead of hostile alienation and isolated deprived depression by sexually-aroused-and-enraged men) in the Holy Spirit;
18 she who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men males of all ages.
19 Let savvy girls and women then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
20 Do not, for the sake of craving male attention and renown of glamour by displaying mopheadedness or naked arms/legs/parts of bare feet in socksless sandals, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean (being undressed for sex in the proper time and place under proper circumstances, unless you get your jollies by sticking your hand instead of a log into a burning fireplace), but it is wrong for any one to make others fall by how she immodestly makes herself into a cheap and despised sex object by her mis-attired hairstyle or armwear or legwear or footwear;
21 it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or breathe or urinate or look at your watch or stand on your feet or rob banks or molest and cut up little toddlers or spray graffiti or do anything such as be mopheaded or sleevesless or slacksless or socksless that makes your brother stumble.
22 The seductive beauty that you have, keep between yourself and God [saved for your one and only future or present husband]; happy is she who has no reason to understandably judge herself for what she approves.
23 But she who has doubts is condemned, if she succumbs to temptation to show herself off her long hair, not tied back into a single back-of-head ponytail or put into an up-do chignon or bun, to men she has no intention of having sex with and which men have absolutely no intention of wanting to have nor having sex with her, because she does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

The same, probably feminist sexist, "I-can-do-no-wrong" arrogantly-fight-back gutterminds who would hypocritically retort to anti-female-immodesty critics the accusatory blurb: "Get your mind out of the gutter!" might quickly follow up with an equally-blasphemous remark of: "And get your mind on Christ who has saved me by His grace, setting your sights on things above, not upon things on Earth."

[A footnote: And who would want to save defiant impenitent trash like that?]

Such vile filth one should, as King David righteously expressed in hate-them-with-perfect-hatred semantics of Psalm 139:22, despise and thereafter avoid...but, keeping in mind that they - thinking it over afterwards - might, as returning prodigals, come to their senses and see the practicality of redress with whatever modesty is required, and change both their attitude and their hairstyle or clothing to comply accordingly, after their impulsive and impetuous reviling outburst:

Psalm 73:22 I was stupid and ignorant, I was like a beast toward you.
23 Nevertheless I am continually with you; you do hold my right hand.
24 You do guide me with your counsel, and afterward you will receive me to glory.
25 Whom have I in heaven but you And there is nothing upon Earth that I desire besides you.
26 My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
27 Wow, those who are far from you shall perish; you do put an end to those who are false to you.
28 But for me it is good to be near God; I have made the Lord GOD my refuge, that I may tell of all your works.

And:

Matthew 21:28 What do you think? A man had two sons; and he went to the first and said: "Son, go and work in the vineyard today."
29 And he answered: "I will not"; but afterward he repented and went.
30 And he went to the second and said the same, and he answered: "I go, sir," but did not go.
31 Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said: "The first." Jesus said to them: "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God instead of you.
32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the harlots believed him; and even when you saw it, you did not afterward repent and believe him.

Plus:

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently [kicking and screaming].

...rather than not entering the kingdom:

Proverbs 30:20 This is the way of an adulteress: she eats, and wipes her mouth, and says, "I have done no wrong."

Jeremiah 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, and the spring rain has not come; yet you have a harlot's brow, you refuse to be ashamed.

Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; at the time that I punish them, they shall be overthrown," says the LORD.

Jeremiah 8:12 Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they shall be overthrown, says the LORD.

So gals, you DO have a choice in the matter - whether God has foreknown you to intend to be (and as much as possible actually become and be) a 24/7 modestly-hairstyled-and-dressed saint....or instead has foreknown you to intend to be (and as much as possible actually become and be) an immodest harlot-lookalike slut.

And set up the circumstances ahead of time (i.e. predestined you) for either choice, of both His first and primarily, then yours thereafter.

And for WHOSE glory? HIS alone? Or yours too?

How about BOTH? No need to be only-God-matters-and-not-me one-sided about this.

To those who do not believe this: "What the hell kind of relationship would that be to only praise God and pretend his Bride does not even exist? Only the husband matters - not the wife? Are you kidding me? Are you insane?"

The God of Marriage . . . whose first command to the human heterosexuals was for nudist-garden married humans to righteously, urgently and fervently kiss, fondle, completely disrobe to be as bare as emerging infants, plus lick and suck then penetrate and insert genitalia with each other (i.e. multiply and subdue the Earth, rather than go off on zero-population-growth lunacy) . . . wants two for One, instead of prudish frigidity headed for extinction.